I somewhat agree with what you are saying.  i dont think you should just believe in something because you are told it is that way.  not to pick on the catholics, but i remember hearing they were going to do away with the belief of purgatory.  so does that mean no catholic person believes in purgatory just because some people in the church said it no longer exists?

Reply to Lizzie........offended? Why would I be offended? You just presumed to know what my beliefs are, implied that I'm a crusader of some kind, and insulted my intelligence. No biggie. I said that I like the idea that some things are the way they are just because. I didn't reference religion. I didn't make a specific reference to anything in fact. Regurgitating things you've read about religion and dropping the name of an empathetic writer doesn't make you enlightened or intelligent. Here's one for you........I hope you remember this one......"Assumption is the Mother of all fuck-ups."

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Amy

notfromseattle:

Reply to Lizzie........offended? Why would I be offended? You just presumed to know what my beliefs are, implied that I'm a crusader of some kind, and insulted my intelligence. No biggie. I said that I like the idea that some things are the way they are just because. I didn't reference religion. I didn't make a specific reference to anything in fact. Regurgitating things you've read about religion and dropping the name of an empathetic writer doesn't make you enlightened or intelligent. Here's one for you........I hope you remember this one......"Assumption is the Mother of all fuck-ups."

I wasn't talking directly to you, just quoting your post for a reference point. Since there were lots of posts in between I was afraid it wouldn't make sense if I didn't. I have no idea what you believe in, how strongly you feel about it, or how smart you are; and it didn't occur to me that I was implying otherwise. I was just giving my thoughts about whether faith has to be blind. I went back and re-read it -- I guess the part where I said "your statement" would make it sound like that. I am so sorry!

Please also notice that I wasn't trying to pick on any one religion, or even religion in general (what does the evolutionary theory have to do with religion). There are hypocrits and idiots in any belief set. In the never-ending process of searching for something I can believe in, I have come across some blaring inconsistencies. I simply stated a few of them. I don't claim to be particularly enlightened or intelligent. I'm just saying that I try to gather as much information as I can about any organized set of beliefs that someone presents as "truth" before I buy into it.

I thought this was a thread where we could feel free to state our opinions -- was I assuming to much in thinking that's what you were inviting when you started it? I was intrigued by what everyone else had been writing, and was looking forward to having fun adding my two-cents-worth. My opinions are no more (or less) important than anyone's. I hope my style of communication doesn't make you (or anyone) think I feel that I'm "invaluable to the universe". Is my saying that I have "very little tolerance" for something really any different than someone else's "I hate" list?

Lizzie

 

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"...on a placid island...in the midst of black seas of infinity..." H.P. Lovecraft

Oh yeah: when I said I didn't want to offend anyone I was referring to any evolutionists, Catholics, Protestants, humanists, or New Age adherents who might think I was generalizing. As I stated a few minutes ago, it's blind faith I don't tolerate well (and if you recall, someone else had that on their hate list, too). It leads to hypocricy and makes whatever belief system they are trying to uphold look ridiculous. I should have also said that that there are many very good and very educated people in any belief set. I respect that, and I hate it when the idiots make the rest look bad.

I'm not against faith in general at all. A lot of people have some very bad things to say about the particular things that I hold as "Truth". Most of them know very little about it. Some of them know quite a lot, but understand it much differently than I do. I don't take any of it personally. I realize that some people are very defensive about these things, though, so was appologizing in advance if I was stepping on any toes.

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"...on a placid island...in the midst of black seas of infinity..." H.P. Lovecraft

Ok, just one more. Amy, you really got to me. Your reaction shocked me so much because personal attack is so far removed from the intent of what I wrote. I'm a little slow on the uptake, but I think I might have figured out how you came to that conclusion -- and I have to admit that it does appear that way when you're not reading it from inside my head. I was not using the word "you" to mean you personally. I was using it to mean people in general. Read the following edited paragraphs, and you'll know what I mean:

Lizzie:

Yes, there is another kind. Oh sure, we eventually have to take that leap, otherwise its not "faith". But what brings us to the precipice? People should try to gain as much knowledge as they can about the facts, history, opposing/confirming ideas, etc. regarding their belief.

Your statement actually sounds like one of the many sermons I have had the distinct displeasure of hearing lately. Most contemporary Pastors, Ministers, Priests (whatever a church leader calls him- or herself in the plethora of choices out there) would have people believe just that. Most don't want us to think too much. 

 

I feel like a fool for putting so much thought and time into one post. I guess that's why I don't do this very often. I think I need to go back to my old policy of just looking around every once in a while, but keeping my mouth shut.

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"...on a placid island...in the midst of black seas of infinity..." H.P. Lovecraft

Reply to Lizzie...........I'm shocked that you're shocked. Be that as it may, there's no need for you to explain yourself to me any further. I'm the first one to call bullshit when I detect it but I don't hold a grudge.

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Amy

Amy,      You are vicious. I bet your daughter has a firey personality, too. I'd love to meet you both. Call it what you will, I do appologize for the misunderstanding. I was done.

Lizzie

P.S.  firey personality = good

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"...on a placid island...in the midst of black seas of infinity..." H.P. Lovecraft

Reply to Lizzie......your apology is not necessary but it's accepted. I'm not really vicious but I've been accused on more than one occasion of being blunt.

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Amy

So much for keeping my mouth shut. There were just a few more points I was going to comment on before I got distracted. I'll be brief.

Since everyone said something about this:  I love babies -- started fantasizing about having one when I was 6. It amazes me I waited until 19 to concieve, and that I maintained the will power to put 5 1/2 yrs between my two. Could've had at least 10 if I considered that a socially responsible thing to do. Didn't even mind labor and delivery very much. Small children are wonderful too, as long as they're not the bratty kind.

Ozy:  You work around doctors -- Oh, I'm sorry!  Do you work in a hospital?  I'm surprised you can say you like your job.

Amy:  I agree wholeheartedly on the universal significance thing. I bet we are actually quite a bit alike. My marriage took the same course. I also have an 11-yr-old daughter. Yours is like a little adult?  Does that mean quiet and thoughtful, or assertive and adept at holding her own? And I just have to know -- do you like your job, or do you find yourself wanting to shake them and yell, "Run while you still have a chance!"

Rev:  Ok, curiosity is driving me crazy. "The prefect union of black and red" -- what's the significance of that?  "Architects of our own hell"?  Is your life really so hellish, or did you just say it that way for effect? It was effective -- caught my attention anyway. And I, too, enjoy your sarcasm.

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"...on a placid island...in the midst of black seas of infinity..." H.P. Lovecraft

Black and red when mixed right can calm me, I can stare at it for quite some time, it can also make me happy if there is proper decor with it, still waiting to meet the girl who'll put some black lipstick stains on a glass of red wine, I'd love that the most.

 I only say Architects of our own hell because of the effect yes. I'm hoping that when I put it that way it will make someone think and if that individual decides I am right and tells their therapist  to go fuck him/her self, then I am happy.

 

I also don't  use sarcasm as much as people may think but if its easier for them to think I'm being sarcastic then so be it.
 

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"We are the architects of our own hell and are thus equipped with the tools to rebuild our lives as we see fit." - Steve Diamond February 2004

i work in an opthalmology office.  I don't have to deal with the drs all that much though, so that is why i still like my job.

Reply to Lizzie......my daughter is equal parts observant, thoughtful, perceptive, assertive, sarcastic, and intelligent. She really is an adult trapped in a child's body. I don't know if that's a good thing. The up side is that I can have a real conversation with her, she calls me on all my bullshit, and we like the same books and music. The down side, she's missing out on a normal childhood. She can't relate to kids her age. She doesn't "play" a whole lot. She thinks more than an eleven year old should. I'm amazed everyday at the things that swirl around in her head. She's much more deliberate than me. She has more potential than I ever did.

I love my job. In spite of my cynicism, I love it. There are some couples that I know won't last a year. There are some brides who are clearly more in love than the grooms and visa versa. Sometimes though there are couples who are so in love and so sweet together that it's touching. Those weddings are fun. I don't enjoy the "bridezillas." We have lots of those. Some women are so frigging controlling they can't let someone else plan their wedding. To those women I say this.......DON'T HIRE A CONSULTANT! DO IT YOUR FRIGGIN SELF! Other women understand the value of having a professional wedding planner. They don't sweat the details. I love those brides. Either way I love my job. It's fun. It's ironic that I'm in the "love" business when my love life has been such a train wreck. I grin about that a lot.

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Amy

Reverend-Syn:

Black and red when mixed right can calm me, I can stare at it for quite some time, it can also make me happy if there is proper decor with it, still waiting to meet the girl who'll put some black lipstick stains on a glass of red wine, I'd love that the most.
 

Black lipstick and red wine ....  Oh ..........

 

Actually, the whole concept is quite fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

Lizzie

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"...on a placid island...in the midst of black seas of infinity..." H.P. Lovecraft

ozymandias:

i work in an opthalmology office.  I don't have to deal with the drs all that much though, so that is why i still like my job.

Ok, that makes sense. It seems like that would be a good job.

I work in a hospital. Not all, but a very large percentage of the Dr's I work around are the most arrogant people you never want to meet. It's so busy and people are stretched to the limit most of the time; tempers tend to run high. It's not a good combination!  I would probably like the office setting much better.

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"...on a placid island...in the midst of black seas of infinity..." H.P. Lovecraft

Amy:      You sound like me -- I could talk like that about my kids all day. It is so awesome to hear from someone else who likes theirs as much. So often people just complain. She sounds like a great kid!

That's so cool about your job, too. I can't tell you how jealous I feel right now! It would take a whole new thread to explain how I feel about my job. Maybe that's an idea ... I need to vent a little.

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"...on a placid island...in the midst of black seas of infinity..." H.P. Lovecraft